Euro 2008

[Green Apes]

4-1 Israehell
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~GA

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[attach]

Andorra.....

[Green Apes]

But atleast were attacking not like we did previous games
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~GA

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[Gerrit]

definitely a great result for Israel: away from home, and against an Andorrese side who lose most of their games but rarely lose with big scores. Israel has 6 out of 6 after, let's be honest, two away games. Great start for them.

And for Norway. 6 out of 6 and leading the tables ; bring on the Euro2008
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Rosenborg, forever pride of the North!

[HoldBrillan]

What the hell is Israel doing in the European championship qualification??
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[Green Apes]

Exactly what your country is doing, except that we were kicked from Asia and UEFA accepted us in their shit. Capise?
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~GA

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[attach]

"Several national football associations which are geographically in Asia belong to UEFA rather than the Asian Football Confederation, including Israel, Cyprus, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan."

[Dags]

As we all know, half of Turkey is actually in Europe, so I guess you can defend that one no matter what.
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Mot dumhet kjemper selv gudene forgjeves.

[HeiaVincent]

Not only that, but Turkey and Konstantinopel especially has been a key factor in the development of modern Europe.
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4-4-3

[Juchmako2]

2/3 of Turkey is in Europe

[Dags]

I stand corrected.
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Mot dumhet kjemper selv gudene forgjeves.

[Gerrit]

Not sure who told you that, but actually only 3% of Turkey is within Europe. Even Kazachstan have more European soil (12% of their territory is within Europe, even though their domestic champions play near the Chinese border - talking of a nice European away trip? )

You do not need to belong to a continent to play football in the continent's federation. FIFA rules indicate that every country can apply in whatever continental federation they want, and can affiliate when the federation agrees. In theory Norway could play in Africa if they ask CAF and if CAF agrees with the affiliation.

Lot of countries play outside of their continent:

Surinam, French Guyana, and Guyana = South American countries playing in the North American/Caribbean zone
Guam = island in Oceania, playing in the Asian zone
Australia = Oceanian nation, playing in Asia
Kazachstan and Turkey = mostly Asian countries, playing in Europe
Cyprus and Israel = not in Europe geographically, playing in European football

Israel by the way was a founding member of the Asian Football Confederation and was forced to leave because some stupid Arabian FA's refused to seperate politics and football. Israel played in Oceania and South America (!!) for a short while, and if I'm not wrong also in Africa for a very short term. UEFA was the only federation willing to welcome Israel, hence they play in Europe. Blame those Arabian nations who refuse to see politics and football as different things, Israel is not to blame !
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Rosenborg, forever pride of the North!

[Juchmako2]

Hm. At school, we have learned that 2/3 of Turkey is in Europe

[Makken]

Agree with gerrit. At school I have learned that only a little bit of Turkey is in Europe - 3%.
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Rosenborg i CL. Send PM eller skriv i tråden om du trenger seeding.

[Dags]

Just goes to show that I don't know what I'm talking about. Wikipedia is also saying 3%, so it's probably right.

My point was, however, that this is not quite accurate (though I was not very accurate myself.)

[Green Apes]

[Gerrit]

Just look at a map of Turkey. The European part is the very tiny peninsula from Greece until Istanbul, Istanbul is partially in Europe and partially in Asia.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu...l_1969.jpg

3% is in Europe, 97% in Asia. The capital, Ankara, is Asian.

Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia: they are in Europe according to most, but it depends I guess how far you want Europe to stretch. Most political institutions will consider it Europe, but it is open for debate.

Cyprus should be in Asia but culturally it is connected with Europe, hence their EU membership.

Israel can say the same (culturally close to Europe) but is without a doubt in Asia. But the ones to blame are the Arabian countries' football associations, who don't want to keep politics out of football. Israel had no choice but to leave Asian football, so it would be wrong to blame Israel for seeking membership of UEFA. The ones to blame are the Arab nations, they refuse to keep politics out of football.
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Rosenborg, forever pride of the North!

[HeiaVincent]

That's a very strict black & white rule you have for deciding how much of Turkey is geographically in Europe. Considering the Black Sea, and Russia, i'd say at least half of Turkey is actually in Europe.

I'd also point out that it may be a bit too easy and naive to say "The ones to blame are the Arab nations, they refuse to keep politics out of football.". If only things were this simple... Besides, politics are to be found in many nations. The Argentina vs. England rivalry has it's background in politics to name one example.
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4-4-3

[Green Apes]

Heia this is obviously not the same, Argentina and England agree to play each other while Israel agrees to play any country and the Arabs refuse, even when the young team of Maccabi Haifa were about to play in some tournament, there was a team from Tunisia and they asked to forfeit from the tournament just because of MH.
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~GA

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[Gerrit]

I agree with Green Apes here. There is a difference between political rivalries (like Celtic-Rangers, which I both dislike because of their political hatred - but that's a different issue) or between refusing to play a team because of politics.

Israel was a founding member of the Asian federation, but suddenly about 5 countries refused to play against them, with as a result chaos in the tournaments and organisation troubles. I'd say the fault is with the Arab countries here: refusing to play against a team just because of politics, is a step too far. I understand politics can not be ignored, but what happened there is just over the top. Israel should not be blamed, they were willing to play the Arab nations and try to forget politics during the game. Unfortunately the Arab countries refused to do that, with the well-known result of Israel seeking affiliation in Europe.

When it comes to Turkey's 'europeanness': I tend to agree with HeiaVincent here, however the 3% I quoted are the 'officially accepted' numbers. I would indeed agree that it should be discussed again, just like it is not entirely correct to include Azerbaijan or Armenia entirely within Europe. The 3% of European soil (for Turkey) are official statistics, I agree with Vincent that it is open for interpretation.

Anyways, for football it doesn't matter that much. As I said: a country is perfectly fine to play outside of its own continent, as long as the continental federation agrees it is perfectly fine for FIFA. Surinam, Guyana, French Guyana, Australia, Guam all play outside of their own continent. So why would we complain about Israel, Kazachstan, Cyprus, Armenia en Azerbaijan? UEFA accepted them, so nothing wrong with that. And Israel has a quite strong team at this moment and I would say they are an asset to Europe, they are a strong side which I welcome very much in our tournaments. Right now we cannot say the same of the others (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazachstan, Cyprus) but they will get more experienced and will improve until the point that they are assets too.
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Rosenborg, forever pride of the North!

[Green Apes]

Could this become general Euro2008 Qualifiers thread instead of making another one?
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~GA

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[Gerrit]

[VerneTroyer]

Hmm, I have always thougt of Cyprus as a part of Europe. After all, they are half greek, and is members of all europeian organisations. Hell, they compete in Eurosong, dammit! As does Israel, at least up to a couple of years ago.

Well, guess I've lerand something new today, then. You leran as long as you live!
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"Itj roit dåkk så langt ut på jorde at dåkk itj sjer traktor'n eingang!"
N.A. Eggen

[Gerrit]

To compete in Eurosong you don't need to be European, you need to be a member of the Eurovision Company. Australia and Mauritius are members, and so are Algeria, Morocco and Lebanon. Australia even shows interest in participating in the Song Contest!

Cyprus is within the EU, but I'd say if we consider Ankara and Bursa as Asian that Cyprus is Asian as well geographically spoken. I mean, they're further east than most of the Asian part of Turkey

Of course we can debate on: does a country belong to Europe geographically only or can a country also be European because of cultural reasons?
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Rosenborg, forever pride of the North!

[Green Apes]

Israel is playing Russia tommorrow we the Israehellis are hoping for a good result to bring us closer to the dream have nice weekend all
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~GA

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