RBK 4-3-3

[SoccerAmerica]

Hi all.

I am new to the board and am curious about the the RBK 4-3-3. As I am in the USA I have only seen your team play twice both times on TV. Once was the famous win vs. AC Milan (1996?) and the othertime was vs. Bordeaux (2000?) in early qualifying for the Champions League.

In both matches it seemed that RBK was a counter-attacking team that played early balls to speedy wingers. When I read about the RBK 4-3-3 the coaches say that they fore-check/press the opponent in his half of the pitch. Also in the short video clips I've seen on this site RBK plays much more direct and doesn't use wingers (now 3 strikers) instead using outside defenders for width in attack.

Would any of you be kind enough give you views on how RBK play now and in the past?

Thank you in advance.

[2mas]

Welcome to this forum, sorry for the late reply!

The "modern Rosenborg" were born in 1988, and ever since we have played pretty much the same style of football. Legendary Nils Arne Eggen is the man behind our system, and he is inspired of Rinus Michels' Dutch "total football".

Attacking wing backs and wingers are key factors. Weither it is the winger or the back who makes the cross balls is irrelevant; they overlap eachother and share this "job".

When it comes to high pressure, Rosenborg nowadays often play a bit more defensive away from home. In the early 90s coach Eggen "chased" his players up front even away to hot shots like Sampdoria, and this ended with big losses (0-5 in the mentioned Sampdoria game). Eggen understood that he had to be a bit more defensive in European cup play, and decided to withdraw the wingers in to a kind of 4-5-1 formation.

This tactical move shortly become a success, and in 1995 RBK for the first time qualified for the UEFA Champions League.

Maybe some other forum users can add some more?

[SoccerAmerica]

Thank you very much 2mas!

I have read of the influence that the recently departed Michel had on Eggen and the foundation of RBK's game plan. That's why I thought that it would there would be more pressing and less counter-attack as well as more use of wingers similar to the Dutch system. BTW, Ajax and the Dutch methods are also studied closely in the USA.

I have spoken with a Club Brugge supporter as Sollied plays very much in the manner that he learned at RBK. He said that Brugge looks like a "handball" team: everyone up in attack and and everyone back on defense. He also said that they passed very directly to the forwards, not using very much width (ie: forwards not wingers), and that Simons was their key player in the same way as Skammelsrud was for RBK. Does this sound similar to RBK at present?

Have Sollied, Hariede, Rise or the new manager made changes to the basic system? What I liked about what I saw was the problems that Heggem (v AC Milan) and Sorensen (v. Bordeaux) caused.

Thanks again 2mas. I'd love to hear from anyone else on this topic.

[joakleis]

The latest years, in fact I believe it has been that way since Sørensen went abroad, RBK have went from 4-3-3 with wingers to 4-3-3 with more or less three strikers. That is a correct observation. But why it is so, I don't really have a good explanation for.

I have never seen Brugge under Sollied, so I don't really know how they play, but it would look strange to me, if thay played any different from what he learned at Rosenborg.

I think Hareide wasn't as bound to the system as Eggen, Solli and By Rise, so he, as I remember, quite often used players who aren't real wingers in attack, and therefore we didn't have the same width as before. That may have been something that caused some problems for By Rise, when he was to follow up the success Hareide had.

It's also a fact that last season's newbie Daniel Braaten had to learn how to play in the winger role, as he was more used to a 4-4-2 system, than the 4-3-3. But I think our wingers today, don't provide us with the same width as Mini, Heggem, Sørenses and those guys did. The wingers often run in central, and the side-backs have to run up to have the wide role. As I remember, the side-backs earlier was there to support the wide-playing wingers, and could deliver those early crosses, who I believe are more used today, than in the 90's.
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[SoccerAmerica]

Thanks for the great explanation joakleis!

Your response has made me wonder who changed the system. It looks like after Eggen the new coaches adopted a different approach. Sollied or Hareide maybe. I spoke with the Club Brugge supporter again and he indicated that they use 3 forward and not 1 forward + 2 wings. He called them "English" forwards. This fellow doesn't really like Sollied's system, but he agreed that you can't argue with the results.

I do know that some coaches think that the weakness of the Dutch 4-3-3 w/wings is that teams have trouble getting enough attackers into the 18 yard box. My guess is that this might be why RBK made the change.

My only real question that is left unanswered is how high RBK sets its defensive line. With both the old and new RBK tactic it seemed medium. In other words between the 18yd box and the midfield line. Is this right? If so it is different from Michels philosophy.

In any case, I consider Eggen, Sollied and most every associated with RBK to be tactical geniuses. They get consistently great results

Thanks once again and I wouldn't mind hearing from others since there are so many that have viewed this thread.

[Recon]

[SoccerAmerica]

Thanks recon!

I'm in Northern California.

I want to try to apply some of the RBK principles to a youth team that I am going to help coach. They are a very skillfull group with great potential, and they are also very athletic. At this level I have had the best results and the most fun when I encourage the players to attack. I wish that I had seen Spartak Moscow '95. Who was their manager?

I think that we will play with our outside forwards wide, more in the old RBK style as that fits their personalities better. Our defenders will tend to drop more as youngsters aren't ready to play anything like an offside trap.

Thanks again for the input.

[haavarl]

[Recon]

[vicente]

I most say i am impressed over your observation about the changes in the playing style of rbk.

When Åge Hareide , in 2003, took over the coach job, he changed the basic system totally. The wingers went in to the middel, and made space for the midfilders that came after on the wing, with support from the backs. This made it hard to get down on the sides, because they now only were 2 players cooperating on the wing (instead of 3), and as a cause of that the crosses came very earliy. another consequence of the changed system was that the midfilders were unable to come on the classic runs. The wingers were bolcking the space by standing in the middel, and the midfielders were supposed to do their runs on the side, not in the direction of the 18 yrds box.

This system did not work at all, when rbk palyed against deportivo in the cl qualifying that year, they were unable to make good and dangerous attacks. I am sure that if Nils Arne Eggen stil had coached the team, we would have beaten an pretty weak deportivo team.

When ola by rise took over, he got problems because he was trying to change back to the "old rbk" but did not quite manage to it.

This year Nils Arne Eggen has returned to the coach team, and the "old rbk" system is back, with 1 striker and 2 wingers!

[fubar]

[SoccerAmerica]

[SoccerAmerica]

[SoccerAmerica]

[Recon]

You might want to get the dvd/videos of RBK's seasons in the Champions league. Shows quite a bit of offensive play, and you might get to see Spartac Moscow as well. *drool*

Oh, and that guy was an English coach, yeah.
Btw, I was bound to be a flop over there, since I was unlucky enuff to score from the center circle in one of my first games...There was no way I could folow thru on those expectations...

Oh, and I set a personal record...nutmegged four opposition players in a row in one match. Not a very tactical bunch, but a couple of them had the best skills I ever saw with a ball. Norwegian-Americans of course!
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